Svetlana Gannushkina: The state is always a violator of human rights. Svetlana Gannushkina

Chairman of the Civic Assistance Committee, member of the Council and head of the Migration and Law Network.

In 1965 she graduated from the Faculty of Mechanics and Mathematics of Moscow State University, until 1967 she studied there as a graduate student.

In 1968-1969 she worked at the Institute of Chemical Engineering, from 1970 to 2000 - a teacher, and then an assistant professor of the Department of Mathematics of the Russian State University for the Humanities.

Has been involved in human rights work since the late 1980s, defending

I am the rights of refugees and internally displaced persons. V last years it focuses on human rights violations in Chechnya, as well as assistance to refugees in Russia.

In 1990, she became one of the founders of the Civic Assistance Committee - the first human rights organization that provides versatile

power for refugees and internally displaced persons. In 1993 she participated in the creation of the Memorial Human Rights Center. In 1996, within the framework of Memorial Human Rights Center, she organized the Migration and Law Network. The Civic Assistance Committee and the Migration Law Network work in close cooperation with UNHCR and use its act

ive support.

financial aid and things (clothes, shoes, dishes, etc.) and distributes among his wards; provides legal assistance and support in obtaining medical care; assists in the provision of free consulting assistance.

Since 2004 in partnership with the French Org

The Civic Assistance Committee is working on a project to promote medical assistance to residents of Chechnya and internally displaced persons in Ingushetia by Secours Catolique (Caritas France). The project is funded by the EU Humanitarian Aid Commission.

A Center is organized under the Committee

adaptation and education of children, where students and graduates of Moscow universities prepare refugee children for a return to normal school life.

Svetlana Gannushkina directs the program of the Human Rights Center "Memorial" "Protection of the rights of forced migrants", within the framework of which the Network "Migration and Law

”, Created to provide free legal advice to migrants in many regions of Russia. Network lawyers conduct consultative reception of migrants, protect their interests in courts, and also work to bring regional acts in line with federal legislation and the Constitution

Svetlana Gannushkina cooperates with the deputies of the State Duma, actively using the mechanism of parliamentary inquiries and petitions to solve general and specific problems of refugees. As a member of the Expert Council under the Commissioner for Human Rights of the Russian Federation, she participates in the development of legislation, as

on the rights of refugees and internally displaced persons, regularly produces reports on the situation of migrants.

Svetlana Gannushkina was a member of the Government Commission on migration policy(liquidated in the spring of 2004). In October 2002, she became a member of the Human Rights Commission under the President of the Russian Federation.

this (and later, created on its basis by the Council under the President of the Russian Federation to promote the development of institutions civil society and human rights). In 2003 she was awarded the prize of the German section of Amnesty International for outstanding service in the field of human rights.

HRC "Memorial" in 2004 was awarded pr

the Fridtjof Nansen Memorial to the UNHCR for its work in the field of refugee protection.

November 27, 2005 in Moscow - an anti-fascist picket, held in response to the "Russian March" of nationalist organizations, which took place in Moscow on November 4, 2005.

An open letter from Gannushkina, addressed to the FSB, ironically labeled as "confession" and bearing the title "With deepest contempt for all stones."

In July 2006, the International Forum of Non-Governmental Organizations "Civil G8 2006" was held in Moscow. Its goals were to discuss pr

a nuisance of concern to the international community in connection with the G8 summit in St. Petersburg. Round tables were held within the framework of the forum. Svetlana Gannushkina and Alexander Verkhovsky (director of the SOVA Information and Analytical Center) led the table on migration and xenophobia.

Eurole 2007 Svetlana Gannushkina received a warning from the prosecutor's office. It pointed out

inadmissibility of violation Russian laws concerning internally displaced persons, refugees, legal status foreign citizens and the rights of citizens to freedom of movement

The reason for the proceedings was

about an appeal to the General Prosecutor's Office of the Russian Federation by State Duma Deputy Nikolai Kuryanovich with a demand to check the activities of the organization "in connection with the implementation of operational cover for ethnic criminal groups by it." The deputy's inquiry appeared after publication in one of the central newspapers in October 2006.

The material reported that one of the criminals killed during the arrest law enforcement(Tariela Tsuly), a petition was found "with a request not to take administrative measures and not to obstruct him when moving around the Moscow region", signed by Svetlana Ga

"Putin must go." For several years now, Svetlana Gannushkina, a human rights activist and chairman of the Civic Assistance Committee, has been one of the loudest proponents of this political thesis and an active figure in the Russian opposition.

I have at my disposal a number of documents showing who, according to Gannushkina, should come to Russia instead of the current president. These documents are irrefutable evidence: for many years the Civic Assistance Committee has been providing legal protection for criminals from African and Asian countries who have moved to Russia. I want to bring to your attention just a few of the many stories in which Gannushkina's organization covered foreign mafiosi from Russian law enforcement agencies.

1. Meet Nahaz Martin Devil. A certificate to this citizen was issued by the Civic Assistance Committee with personal signature Gannushkina. The documents that Nakhaz provided, together with the certificate, aroused suspicion among the FMS authorities, as a result of which an inspection was carried out.

During the check, it turned out that Nakhaz forged documents on a color printer, and fingerprinting determined the real name of this citizen - it turned out to be a native of Nigeria Akingbade Oluvadere Martinis, previously convicted for illegally crossing the border of the Russian Federation and sentenced to 7 months in prison.

Here is a certificate provided by the Federal Migration Service, confirming my words and revealing in detail the story of the illegal actions of granting asylum by the so-called. "refugee" (clickable):

And this is a fake birth certificate of "Nakhaz" and fingerprint data, indicating that Nakhaz is not at all the one who presented him by the "Civic Assistance" committee to the FMS:

A criminal record issued in the real name of Akingbad Oluvadere Martinis and confirmation of the "release" under article 30, part 3 and 322, part 1, "illegal crossing of the state border of the Russian Federation":

2. And this is information about other "refugees" to whom the "Civic Assistance" committee assisted in forging documents. One of them was previously listed "unwanted persons to enter the territory of the Russian Federation", another was convicted under Article 228 Part 1 "Illegal acquisition, storage, transportation, manufacture, processing without the purpose of selling narcotic drugs, psychotropic substances or their analogs on a large scale".
(Document opens on click)

And a couple more citizens who, as a result of checks, turned out to be unwanted guests of the Russian Federation and provided deliberately false information about personal data.

Recently, we have been discussing a lot about the fact that non-profit organizations must not be secret agents of foreign influence in Russian politics. Speaking about this issue, we usually mean the secret connections of our pseudo human rights defenders with the governments of the United States and European countries. However, as it turns out, foreign agents are also divided into leagues (or castes). Among them there is a higher one, which works with the CIA and MI6, and there is a lower one, which represents the interests of the African and Asian mafias in Russia. The comrades from Nigeria and Afghanistan, of course, do not care about the "Putin regime", but their modest dollars are also money, and will also be useful in the "sacred cause of the swamp revolution".

P.S.
I learned that Svetlana Gannushkina is extremely concerned about my interest in her "charitable" activities. This is very revealing :)

By the way, such leaflets are distributed by the employees of "Civic Assistance" at the airports, offering all kinds of assistance in the preparation of documents to citizens from Asian and African countries who have arrived in the Russian Federation.

Captured Germans in the streets, a military carrot, a grandmother as a teacher of human rights, physics and lyrics, Sumgait and the Emergency Committee, cooperation or resistance and other topics in an interview with Svetlana Gannushkina "Echo of Moscow"

S. Kryuchkov- This is "Debriefing". The show will be hosted by Stanislav Kryuchkov and Andrey Yezhov. And our guest today will be Svetlana Gannushkina, chairman of the Civic Assistance Committee, a human rights activist. Svetlana Alekseevna, hello!

S. Gannushkina- Hello! Only I am also the head of the Migration and Law Network of the Memorial Human Rights Center.

A. Ezhov―Svetlana Alekseevna, a question that we traditionally ask all guests of our program, without exception: what was the most difficult, most difficult decision in your life, which we thought for a long time, which, perhaps, we regretted in the end? It is clear that it is difficult to answer so straight away, but still, let's try.

S. Gannushkina- Firstly, not right off the bat, because, of course, I got acquainted with the format of your program and thought about this topic.

You know, to be honest, I haven't come up with anything special. I thought that the hardest thing I had to do in my life was to go back to school after a three-year illness when I was 10 years old. After 7 years, I immediately fell ill, for 3 years I lay with heart disease, and then, as a girl of 80 kg, a 10-year-old patient, I came to school, and I came to a women's school. And quite cruel people at this age of a girl, I must tell you.

I remember that time very well, I remember how difficult it was for me to go out in front of the class and say something. I remember how I stood in front of the board and was asked to show me the Volga. I repeated to myself: The river must be shown from the mouth to the source. And she saw this bold line and could not raise her hand.

And so, probably, then going to school every morning was the most difficult decision. It seems to me that after overcoming this, I did not have such moments when I had to make some very difficult decisions, but I just had to listen to myself.

A. Ezhov- And if you run a little ahead chronologically, to school, what was your earliest childhood. This is Moscow, as I understand it ...

S. Gannushkina- This is Moscow, this is war.

A. Ezhov- Some kind of military memories, I think, hardly ...

S. Gannushkina- You know, I have some wartime memories. I even remember the captured Germans. I was very young. This was the first time when it was already possible to go outside, and it was not scary. And the picket fence, which now, apparently, would reach my knees, ended somewhere under my chest. And suddenly everyone saw that the Germans were walking along our Khlebny Lane, which is not far from here, they were driving the Germans, the captured Germans already.

This was probably the 45th year, I was three years old. And now I remember this feeling very well: there are gray people in gray pea coats, thin, with drooping heads, with pointed noses. And I understand even then that these people did something very bad, but, on the other hand, on the other hand, my child's heart breaks from this desire to pity them. And at this time, just like now, in my ears I hear the voice of my nanny: "Poor, they are poor." And a great relief, because that means you can regret.

S. Kryuchkov- So it was the general atmosphere of all the people who watched it?

S. Gannushkina“I don’t know if this was common, it’s difficult for me to judge, because I was still very young. I may not have been three years old. But, in any case, it was such a message from the nanny. There was condemnation in this, and at the same time they are no longer enemies, they are already defeated enemies, and these are people with whom one can sympathize. I think that it was a moment, perhaps, of some kind of special moral inoculation, that one can sympathize, one can, no matter what.

S. Kryuchkov- Do you remember any everyday aspects of that time? How hard it was, or, in principle, as a child ... well, these are not children, they probably remember, adults, probably, somehow felt more acutely at that moment - do you have any opinion about that time, about that moment?

S. Gannushkina- I remember the fruit that I got. It was a carrot. One carrot per day. It was very valuable. I remember our huge professorial apartment, because my grandfather was a professor. This apartment remained, where there were cold rooms, and something was heated with a stove-stove.

I remember how I went to the kitchen, where several people lived in the kitchen, including one woman who was simply brought from the street by someone who lived with us, maybe a nanny, maybe someone else. And I came there, in the kitchen and told them stories about brother Vanka in the village. There were no children at all, except for Zhorik from the first floor, because it was impossible to go out anywhere. And I also had a girl named Nina in the mirror - I remember that too.

And such a strange recollection: I remembered one woman who was literally brought from the street. She stayed in Moscow when it was no longer possible to leave. She, sitting on the boulevard, alone, was brought in by one of those who lived in the kitchen. Because we had several people there who somehow lived as a family, once worked ... And so already ... here's my nanny, she worked “for the artists,” as she said, as a cloakroom attendant.

And this woman, brought then, I met four or five years ago at the cemetery, when I came ... It so happened that Pasach coincided with the day of my father's death. And many times when I came - usually after Easter (the day of my father's death on May 1) - I always found a split egg and pieces of cake there, and we did not know who it was.

And so I came - and there was a woman sitting there. I ask: "Who are you?" She says: "I am Dusya, and who are you?" I say: "And I am Svetlana, the granddaughter and daughter of the people who are resting here." And she called me by her childhood name: "Svetik!" I say: “Well, yes, once Svetik. Who are you?" - “I'm Dusya. I can't forget my grandmother. Why, she saved me during the war. " It was like some kind of phantom ...

A. Ezhov- Amazing story. Was this a chance meeting?

S. Gannushkina- Absolutely random. The days just coincided. She went every year. And it was, you know, a little bit like a ghost, because she never came back. I asked: "How often do you go out?" She said: "I went to the polls." And then there were many candidates. I ask: "Who did you vote for?" She says to me: “How did you vote for? I folded this piece of paper, which they gave me, and put it in the trash can. " I fulfilled my civic duty and left. So this is Soviet man... It was very symbolic, because these eggs and Easter cakes did not appear at the Novodevichy cemetery anymore.

A. Ezhov- Post-war Moscow. We, in fact, come to this moment of the beginning of your school life. Remember what the atmosphere was like at that time? All the same, the time is absolutely difficult. Or, again, at such a young age, you were not aware of what was happening or was there some kind of understanding?

S. Gannushkina- I didn't. And when I went to school in the first grade, I say that I got sick and got up already when I was 10, even more - 10 and a half years, and these attacks of rheumatic heart disease stopped. My tonsils were removed - and rheumatic heart disease started to decline. And in general, I am now a healthy person. And I remember this extraordinary difficulty of communicating with the children's team. And I remember how I got out of it. Certainly, public life I was of little interest.

Then the nanny left. She got her own house, her own room, and she stopped living in our house. And right after the war we had a housekeeper, Lida. This Lida was one of those girls who were driven by the Germans in front of them in battle. And she said: in order not to be subjected to violence, they smeared cow dung on their faces, and then, when ours attacked, they ran to meet them and shouted: "Shoot!" Of course, this is a memory, which, apparently, at a later time, when she was telling this, also remained in her memory.

And the fact that the war was over, and that everyone would now live fine, that literally happiness would come for all people - this, of course, was very felt. And I remember the day when the cards were canceled, when it suddenly turned out that you could take not one candy, but several candies, that you could buy something in stores. I already remember this time very well.

And then, I say, school, and this difficult school life at a certain time. Well, and then - the university and so on.

A. Ezhov- Let me remind you that Svetlana Gannushkina is visiting the Debriefing program. Join our conversation. 7 985 970 45 45.

S. Kryuchkov- One of the days of March 53 on the eve of your birthday somehow engraved in your memory?

S. Gannushkina- Certainly. It was not on the eve of my birthday. On March 5, Stalin's death was not announced. They announced the 6th, exactly on my birthday. And I just turned 11 years old. And I have already started going to school. And the first days shortly before Stalin's death - on the 4th, 5th - everyone was crying. For some reason, I didn't cry, apparently because nobody was crying at home. And I even told my classmate that you have to be courageous.

When I came on the 6th, they said to me: "Well, are you courageous today too?" And the teacher stood with her back to us. You know, then there was such a very short haircut in fashion. And I saw how the back of her head was crimson. She cried softly, turning away from the class. But after school I came home and said to my mom: "Mom, my birthday is forever ruined." To which my mother said to me: “Go wash your hands and call Zhorka. You will drink tea and cakes. " And everything was forgotten immediately. We played board games with him, which were presented to me that day, and somehow I did not care at all. There was no atmosphere of fear or tragedy in the house.

In general, my grandfather (on the mother's side) in Baku was very familiar with Stalin, and he did not have a good relationship. And he spoke on this matter both before and after, and somehow I heard it out of the way. Therefore ... And I did not have a pioneer childhood, as they already understood, because that time I spent safely at home.

Nevertheless, I fell ill again and on the day of Stalin's funeral I forced me to put on a pioneer tie, because they had just taken advantage of the moment and accepted me as a pioneer while I was healthy. And so I made me put on a pioneer tie. My mother was terribly worried, because her younger brother and my father's younger nephew went to the funeral after all, then they returned to the rooftops. In general, everyone is like everyone else.

S. Kryuchkov- What was the reason for the choice in favor of the Mechanics and Mathematics Department after school?

S. Gannushkina- You know, mathematics to some extent made me a full-fledged person. It happened like this. As you understand, when you go to school at the age of 11, when everyone is used to writing, doing something with your hand, and you were lying there, reading something, and maybe you’re thinking well, but at the same time you absolutely do not know how to move your hand over paper ... And then this is a children's team, which very hard on me acted on me - this, of course, everything is very difficult.

And in the classroom, I remember the moment when our leader during a meeting said: "How can our team fight for the first place, when we - I will not give the name of another girl - and Gannushkin?" And that girl then went to a special school for the mentally disabled, so you can understand how much fun it was.

A. Ezhov- Attitude.

S. Gannushkina- And then, already in the 6th grade, we were united with the boys. And then it turned out that this very Gannushkina, who, perhaps, also needed to be sent, who cannot write without errors - I still write with errors, I miss letters, this is not illiteracy, but something like that, motor - can solve problems that others cannot.

And besides, when we were united with the boys, it is, of course, clear that not the best were given to the girls' school. But they were different. In general, it was such a homeless Arbat, Arbat barracks ... This is described in "Children of the Arbat" - what was the Arbat then, this Khlebny lane. And their fathers perished for many. The mothers were forced to work very hard, and many drank at the same time. And they have already spent several years in the same class. Now, after all, they do not leave for the second year, as I understand it. Then they left very actively. And we were 13 years old, and these boys were 15, already almost adult men.

And it was necessary to do mathematics with them. And so they came to my house, and I studied mathematics with them, and this immediately increased my rating. I realized that there is something for which I can be respected. And when you feel it in yourself, those around you also understand it. Well, those around you felt it too. Well, by the 7th grade I was already almost an excellent student. That is, it was overcome and largely due to mathematics. So I had no question where to go. I wanted to do math.

And one more thing. In general, in fact, I grew up on the tasks of Perelman, still sick ... This is the book of Perelman, not the one who refused the award, but, perhaps, his namesake or ancestor. An absolutely wonderful book called "Entertaining arithmetic", not even mathematics, nor algebra, but arithmetic. There are very tricky tasks. It's nice to solve them.

It is a great pleasure to study mathematics. Mathematics is logic. And every time you solve a problem it is creativity, every time it is a discovery. That is, in general it is wonderful. So there was no question.

A. Ezhov- As for difficult relationships with peers, this problem was due to the fact that you spent a long time alone with yourself at home and just late ...

S. Gannushkina- Yes, I just did not know how to communicate with them. I have not gone through a certain period when relationships with peers arise.

A. Ezhov- In the end, everything worked out somehow by itself or was the effort worth some?

S. Gannushkina- Gradually it got better. Well, of course, it was worth the effort, but it got better in the end. Friends appeared, friends appeared. And already when I found myself at the mechanics department, there were a lot of strange people besides me.

S. Kryuchkov- Strange, in what sense?

S. Gannushkina- Well, different. Mathematicians are very different people - psychologically very different. And being a black sheep there is just a normal state.

S. Kryuchkov- This is the 60s, the famous dispute between physicists and lyricists.

S. Gannushkina The 64th year is already the end.

S. Kryuchkov- Lyrical notes were not at all devoid of.

S. Gannushkina“Of course not. What are you! You know, we have two poets: Boris Kushner and Volovik Sasha. We have two poets like that, real ...

S. Kryuchkov- Did you study on the course?

S. Gannushkina- From our course only. And besides, Kushner, he played the piano like that, and he was self-taught ... Because, you see, the situation is also: one room in an apartment, and it is difficult to teach a child. But, nevertheless, when the piano appeared in the house, he began to play. They played improvisations, competing, in fact, with very, very professional musicians. So we have a lot of musicians among mathematicians.

E.Kanakova- And you yourself have never disliked serving the muses?

S. Gannushkina- Why, disgusted? Actually, great. But I am not gifted with such abilities. I don’t write poetry and don’t play musical instruments. But, of course, I love painting and music. And I love poetry very much.

S. Kryuchkov- The decision to stay after university in teaching, in pedagogy, did it come naturally?

S. Gannushkina- In a natural way, because, as I have already said, from about 13 years old I have been studying with laggards, and with groups. It so happened that the teacher left me with the whole class. And this was also always a great pleasure for me.

First, you are always among the youth. It is customary to scold young people, but at the Historical and Archival Institute, which, let's face it, was quite a thug, and there were different things. Then, it is still ideological, and I naturally fell out of it, but students always supported me. At the same time, I gave them deuces quite mercilessly. But still, there was a response to this desire to teach people to think. Because mathematics, what can I say ... Lomonosov said: "Mathematics should be taught because it puts the mind in order." Therefore, even if people later will not take integrals for themselves, it nevertheless builds their thinking in a certain way, and this is very important.

A. Ezhov- Just still historical and archival. It seems to me that mathematics is not quite a specialized discipline.

S. Gannushkina- It's non-core. There was no exam for a very long time. The first exam in mathematics at the Faculty of Scientific and Technical Information, in fact, was introduced by me. I was the first chairman of the commission, I prepared tasks for this.

A. Ezhov- And there is some kind of simplified program, as I understand it?

S. Gannushkina- What do you mean, simplified? Each university has its own program.

A. Ezhov- At sociologists, I know, now, in any case, there is still not that very ...

S. Gannushkina- You see, people are taught differently. Mathematics is different. Firstly, the mathematics that I loved and which I studied, it is akin to art. This is not applied mathematics. This is math for beauty. In general, in mathematics there is a lot of things that are done for beauty, but then suddenly it turns out that this simulates some really existing processes, it happens. But mathematicians themselves do this just to make it beautiful. Just like people do music, poetry and so on. And the humanities need to be taught this beauty and logic, and this is very important. And techies need to be given what they can then apply. It's just different mathematics. And in this sense, I cannot say that it is somehow primitive. But there are mathematical methods defined in the humanities, in particular, statistics, of course, and modeling. And, in general, in fact, a humanities student should know mathematics.

I remember that a philosopher was trying to get me on the exam in philosophy, when I said that mathematics at some point comes to every science ... But he had a template and he wanted me to tell him such a phrase that the use of mathematics characterizes the level development of science. Here he understood it only in this way, and did not want to understand what was said in other words. This is just a philosopher.

A. Ezhov- Surely there were students who, well, not in any. So I put myself, conditionally, in my place ...

S. Gannushkina- Well, yes, there are people ... First, you have to overcome resistance. In general, a teacher, like a doctor, by the way, should be a little aggressive. But this is this kind of positive aggression, this is your desire to cure or your desire to teach. And you must go to the student with this. If you just ... well, take what you take - offer; if you don’t take it and don’t need it, you’ll hardly teach him anything. You need to force him. This is a challenge in part.

But there are people who resist very much. And there are people who then say ... By the way, I recently received this recognition on Facebook: “You know, thank you. I am now a high-level accountant. And, in fact, the development of logical thinking - you gave it to me. " I was very pleased.

Actually, you know, the nicest award I've received? I went to some chat, I was looking for something there, I don't remember what, and suddenly I see such a question there ... There, in fact, about my son: "Who is Petya Gannushkin?" Further, different reasoning begins. Someone recalls Pyotr Borisovich Gannushkin, my grandfather, someone of my son in his various guises, and then the following phrase: “We had a mathematician Svetlana Alekseevna Gannushkina. She taught us terver (theory of probability) and mathematical statistics. And in general, a super-duper aunt. " I don't know who wrote this. This is the response of the humanities scholar: "Super aunt." It was very customary for me to read.

S. Kryuchkov- The person who taught people to think, especially in such, as you put it, a thieves and far from the last institute, the historical and archival institute, probably did not remain without the patronage and tutelage of the deep drilling office. Have you experienced this in any way?

S. Gannushkina- You know, I think that the interest in me from this "office", as you say, it, of course, did not happen because of lectures in mathematics, but it happened because besides mathematics, I also had meetings with students and he usually dealt with poetry. Once I was given such an offensive postcard for March 8 by students: "We congratulate you and wish you to teach poetry here, not mathematics."

And, of course, when we talked about poetry, I talked about the fate of poets. And you understand that when you talk about the fate of Mandelstam, Akhmatova, Tsvetaeva, Mayakovsky, Andrey Bely, Pasternak ... I sometimes had conversations with them for four, four-odd hours ...

S. Kryuchkov- It was a seminar in my free time.

S. Gannushkina- Yes. They came to listen to it, and they came very actively. And it is clear that this is a conversation about life, and this is a conversation about the country, and it cannot but be ideological.

A. Ezhov- Cannot be avoided, of course.

S. Gannushkina- Well, in general, in a free conversation, during breaks, we also talked about this topic. I brought them books. And suddenly, it means that I have a special course - and you understand that only people who are very interested come to a special course in mathematics at such an institute - all of a sudden a student comes who can barely pull a C. Why would he go to my special course? Well, because after the special course I still talk about something. He made me a very good bulletin board.

A. Ezhov- Masterful.

S. Gannushkina- Yes Yes Yes. And so it happened three times. One of the students comes up to me and says: "Svetlana Alekseevna, be careful with such and such, because he performs a certain function in your presence." “Okay,” I say, “thanks. Actually, I guess. " And do you know what happened all three times? After that, a person from my environment disappeared. That's how he knew that I had received this signal, I don't know, but all three times when I was informed - maybe there were more of them, I don't know; I still taught for 30 years - but I received such a signal from my own students three times, and all three times after that the observer from my environment disappeared. So the guys worked well.

A. Ezhov- Not bad.

S. Gannushkina- Better than now, I think.

S. Kryuchkov- Many people ask about how you got involved in human rights work. And, of course, we ourselves could not but ask this question.

S. Gannushkina- I see, yes. This is a common question. In fact, you can say that my family and I have never left the human rights sphere. My grandmother to so many ... I told you that they brought a woman from the street, settled in her. She lived all the war in our house. In general, my grandmother always helped everyone around. And, in fact, she met my grandfather in this way. She organized the first, one might say, psychiatric hospital, which was not ward No. 6, and invited him as a consultant. Here I am - the result of my grandmother's human rights activities. And the father too. And, of course, I had a lot of all sorts of stories when I had to help out my students.

We had such a case when we hired a person to work at the Institute of History and Archives. Then they realized that we were "too much for the Jews."

A. Ezhov- That is, there was some kind of quota?

S. Gannushkina- Yes, there was a quota. And they said they had to fire him. How to fire? They tried to prove that the person is professionally unfit. Can you imagine? This means the wolf ticket is forever. But, in general, we managed to protect him. He then, after a while, left for on their own, but they did not manage to expose it that way. Although, in fact, it was surprising, because the vice-rector came to this meeting of the department, where it was discussed and the head of the department, in general, many people were just sharpened to do this - and did not work out.

That is, in fact, if it is in the blood, then it is there and that's it. And as for the fact that in the last Soviet years it was possible to unite no longer in a society for the protection of monuments or not DOSAAF, but in a real non-governmental organization - that, in fact, this is how it all started, when we can already say that it was already organized human rights activities.

It was first the Civic Assistance Committee, which appeared ... Even at first not Civic Assistance, first the section of national-political relations at the sociological association, which was established by Igor Krupnik - now a professor in the USA, and Galina Starovoitova, who, unfortunately, is among we are no longer there. And they invited me to be the founder. Krupnik invited me. And I didn’t understand at all why. She said that I was actually a mathematician and I didn't know what I was going to do there. He said, "I know."

This happened after there was the first discussion of the problem of anti-Semitism. It was on March 9, 1988, shortly after the pogrom in Sumgait. But it was this topic that was discussed. I will no longer explain how it happened that I ended up there and why I ended up there. Because I wrote many letters about this, in general, I always had a painful point - anti-Semitism.

A. Ezhov- In general, the Soviet reality of those years, how much it weighed you down and by the end of the 80s did you already understand where you were heading?

S. Gannushkina- Yes, I understood that I was heading for the collapse of the Soviet Union. I remember, I even said that at home. To me, my son then, already such an adult schoolboy, said: "Do you like to pronounce loud, pretentious words." But the Soviet Union did not become after three years.

So, in fact, this, of course, was very felt - and this oppressive atmosphere and the fact that everything is falling apart: the economy is falling apart, everything around is falling apart, that it is impossible to continue to govern the country like that. It was understandable. But, of course, I could not have predicted that it would all end this way.

But as soon as this so-called democratization began - this, if you remember, was an anecdote: what is the difference between democracy and democratization? The same as the canal from the sewer - and, of course, along this sewer, in addition to positive things, very disgusting things, unexpected for Gorbachev and his entourage, went. Because what was under oppression began to be liberated, climbed outward, and these interethnic clashes began.

And the first thing they started talking about at this section was the Armenian-Azerbaijani conflict, Azerbaijan and so on. You know that Starovoitova was on the Armenian side. And it was completely obvious to everyone, and to me, too, that there is a suffering side and a victim - these are the Armenians, and this is such a progressive democratic movement for the transfer of Karabakh to Armenia, and there are conservatives, Azerbaijanis, and they are executioners. And here is an unambiguous division. After all, we always want to see the black and white side in every phenomenon, clearly understand the boundaries.

And in January 1989, I said several times that let's talk somehow and listen to what the Azerbaijani intelligentsia thinks about this, let's talk with them. But this did not arouse much interest. And in January 1989, I decided to go to Yerevan, join the democratic movement between two exams per session, and bought a ticket to Baku.

If we talk about some very important story for me, this is the story of how I went to Baku and saw refugees there for the first time - and everything fell into place for me right away. I saw refugees. These were Azerbaijanis, peasants expelled from Armenia. They walked through the pass shortly before that, in December. The woman's two-month-old baby froze to death, and she rushed about like mad with this corpse, and it was a terrible sight. They mostly spoke poorly in Russian. There was only the director of the school, who was also a party organizer from some village. So he spoke and he said: “The bearded Armenian comrades with machine guns came and told us to leave.” More Soviet time- they were still comrades who came.

And I saw these victims from this side, and I realized that for me any conflict is not divided ethnically on one side or the other, but exactly perpendicularly: there are suffering people, and they, in general, are all alike. But, of course, you can weigh where there are more victims, where there are fewer victims, where there was more cruelty, where there was less cruelty, and this is important, it is necessary, but you need to understand that there are victims on both sides always in conflicts.

I talked about it. I was shouted at all kinds of meetings, so to speak, in Moscow: “You are confusing the victim and the executioner. Azerbaijanis bought you! Who is Svetlana Alekseevna's husband? Is he Azerbaijani? "

S. Kryuchkov- It always interests the audience.

S. Gannushkina- No, not Azerbaijani. My husband is Jewish. And nobody bought me, of course. And already in January 1990 there were pogroms and a huge flow of refugees of Armenians and mixed families, but mostly, of course, Armenians from Baku, completely out of the knives in a terrible state. Those who were taken to Moscow ended up in Moscow.

And here a very strange event happened for me, which consisted in the fact that our appeals to the authorities did not lead to anything, because the authorities were sure that everything would somehow be resolved by itself, they would all return to their places. Here I often recall Lenin's words that the cook - well, it's true, he said a little differently - should run the state. So I was a clean cook in terms of government. But it was clear to me that this would not be resolved quickly, that this was a conflict for many years and that something needed to be done.

But nothing was done. Only the Council of Ministers issued a decree, which said that all refugees should be removed from the Moscow region and the Leningrad region, and no one said where they were removed. Moscow must be liberated - Moscow, Moscow Region, Leningrad, Leningrad Region must be liberated from refugees. It was absolutely, I don't know, almost a fascist decision. It's like Warsaw Judenfrei - free of refugees, free of Jews.

And here several people united who were tired of turning to the state and formed the Civic Assistance Committee. This is how the Committee happened, this is how I met Lydia Grafova, a wonderful journalist and the already deceased Vika Chalikova, with Igrunov, Vyacheslav Igrunov, he, in my opinion, was the only man among us, the rest were women; with Ida Bestavoshvili, translator. So we formed this civic assistance committee, which exists to this day.

S. Kryuchkov- That is, it was a private initiative of caring people

S. Gannushkina- It was an absolutely private initiative of caring people who realized that you need to do something yourself and you can do something yourself.

S. Kryuchkov- And where did you get such confidence that several people can really help? ..

S. Gannushkina- We didn't know what we can. We are absolutely like blind kutyats ... We were distributing some kind of humanitarian aid that we received then. Here are my first contacts - they were Belgian Doctors Without Borders, who gave us milk. We distributed milk to refugees.

And we somehow contacted the deputies, talked to them. And I must tell you that our influence turned out to be sufficient to make it then much more democratic than federal authorities The Moscow City Council refused to evict the refugees and provided them with hotels and hostels in Moscow and the Moscow region.

But I must say that this problem has not yet been resolved. People still come to me ... I don’t know, maybe you read it, for some reason it went through all editions. Our Ivanyan Zhanna Petrovna, who is 91 years old, who is now not being evicted from the Ostankino hotel, but forced to pay and, in general, they are trying, of course, to ... push out a little. And there were only three people left. She, another woman and one man.

A. Ezhov- Were there any fears? After all, you are, in fact, changing your life so dramatically at that moment?

S. Gannushkina- No, I didn't change it, I continued to teach. I came to my students, I talked about what I saw in the Armenian permanent mission, where, in fact, people came and from where they could not be expelled. And my students gave me a “ruble” and a voucher for sugar, because sugar was given only on coupons. And a kilogram of sugar cost a ruble 4 kopecks of refined sugar and 98 kopecks of sand. And so, it means that the ruble was joking and they handed over these extra coupons, I wore them there in this very embassy. And at first it was like this.

And then it became clear that we must deal with the law, that we must strive to ensure that laws are passed, and so on. Then, in 1996, the Migration and Law Network appeared, which covered 54 settlements Russia, now - only over 30, because there is no money.

S. Kryuchkov- At what point did you realize that teaching should be left out?

S. Gannushkina- I finished working until retirement, I worked for two years after retirement. And just at some point it turned out that our work and mine, in particular, are well-known abroad. They began to invite me to different conferences in different cities. I started to miss lectures. This was one of the reasons. Then, I had to go to the courts. I realized that it was no longer possible to combine, it was impossible to postpone lectures, endlessly say to students: "Excuse me, please, come on Saturday in extra time ...".

To be honest, I have no grudge against the students, because everyone did it, everyone understood it, everyone came to extra classes, but still it’s wrong. A person still has to do his job fully.

A. Ezhov- Some time after the Karabakh conflict, Chechnya arose. In general, at that time there was an understanding in society that this region could become a hot spot, or did you not think about it? Or it all happened suddenly ...

S. Gannushkina- Everything, of course, started with the Emergency Committee. And after that, of course, everything changed very much in the country, extremely, changed, unfortunately. And if it was possible then to hope that everything would go peacefully, then after that it was impossible to count on it, and Chechnya turned into hot spot... And when they started bombing ... You see, now it is very customary to say: “Ay-yay-yay! How can you talk about the 90s as something bad? It was actually a time of freedom, ”and so on. But that was the time of the Chechen war, and with this time I have unambiguously connected the name of Boris Nikolayevich Yeltsin, who started the first war, after that, on the wave of the second wave, we got what we now have.

If I was born under Stalin, then I will have to die under Putin, which is not very fun. I do not want to say anything bad about him, but I would like the power to change dynamically, so that the country changes evolutionarily. I really do not want any revolutions, but I would like to see no stagnation, including stagnation in power.

A. Ezhov- And at what point in Putin's rule did you realize that such a major turnaround was taking place.

S. Gannushkina- It was from the very beginning.

A. Ezhov- From the very beginning, 99th year?

S. Gannushkina- From the very beginning, yes.

S. Kryuchkov- You pronounced these two names, which are ambiguous in their assessments. And whose name have you carried with you all your life, which for you remains a crystal of purity, perhaps a kind of human, personal, professional?

S. Gannushkina- Chekhov. Probably Chekhov. My favorite writers are Chekhov and Dostoevsky. But Dostoevsky, of course, is much more complicated.

S. Kryuchkov- Is a human rights defender a person who fights for something or against something? This is casuistry, but nonetheless.

S. Gannushkina- I think that a human rights defender - I have never understood what it is - this is a person who is called a human rights defender. A human rights defender is a person who is called at any time of the day or night and is told: "You are a human rights defender! .."

A. Ezhov- Do something.

S. Gannushkina- Yes, and "do something." At 3 am they call and say: “I'm calling you from prison. We've got a guy taken from the barracks and beaten. " I say, "How do you know me?" He says: “We have your phone number written on the wall. We do not know where we are calling. "

And you call the zone, you say: “Hello. I am a member of the Presidential Council, - then I was a member of the Presidential Council, - they woke me up here, - although I did not sleep, to be honest, I am a night person and I like to work at night - and they told me this and that ... ”. "Who said?" - they ask me. I say, “Someone called from your administration. After all, you probably also have decent people. " And after a while I receive a text message: “Thank you! You helped us a lot. The guy was returned and not really beaten. "

Here. This is the one who is being addressed. I would never call myself a human rights defender.

S. Kryuchkov- In this 27-year history of Civic Assistance, was there at least one long period of time when you met more assistance from the authorities, or something ...

S. Gannushkina- Cooperation.

S. Kryuchkov-… cooperation rather than resistance?

S. Gannushkina- Yes they were different periods... And I must say that in difficult times they turn to us themselves. And in 1996, for example, when the storming of Grozny began ... We had such a tradition (then the committee was much smaller) - we went on vacation for August. And the head of the reception office called me from the Federal Migration Service and said: “Svetlana Alekseevna, open the committee anyway. People come to us in such a state ... I was sobbed today. "

I took my daughter's money savings, which she had put aside, somewhere around a thousand dollars, exchanged them and went to distribute them to people. We opened and started working.

That's when this starts, they turn to us. Because to answer a person when an unhappy person comes to you who does not know, in general, what to do and where to go, and you have to answer him every time: “I can’t help you with anything,” then you can go to a psychiatric clinic ... And when you can say: “Go to the“ Civic Assistance ”and there they will help you at least a little, this is a way out for the authorities themselves. And then, during such periods, they turn to us.

We knew different times of cooperation. We have a lot of people in migration service with whom personal relations have developed very good, because there are also sympathizers, good people.

But in general, the attitude is not very important now. Well, what can I say ... I am a foreign agent four times. We are all declared foreign agents - four times. All the organizations to which I have at least some relation: this is the human rights center "Memorial", then this is the Sakharov Center, where I am a member of the commission, this is "Civic Assistance", and finally, the international "Memorial" the essence of this law cannot be recognized as a foreign agent, because he international organization... That is, this is a signal from above.

S. Kryuchkov- So you yourself started talking about this in the previous part of your such gloomy monologue. Here is a person who faces human pain, human grievances, cruelty to people, in the end - how to emotionally, psychologically exist in this, how is this compensated for in life, in your concrete life?

S. Gannushkina- I have such, not the first time uttered answer. You know that during the war the following inscription appeared on party committees: “The committee is closed. All went to the front. " Our organization is also called the Civic Assistance Committee. And we cannot write on our doors: “The committee is closed. Everyone went into depression. " But we also do not go into depression, because our state is constantly injecting us with adrenaline.

A. Ezhov- Keeps you in good shape.

S. Gannushkina- Yes, it keeps me in good shape. And this is what makes you move. And it makes someone else's pain move. The hardest part was probably in the early years. I remember that I came from receptions of refugees - then at the Literaturnaya Gazeta in Lydia Ivanovna Grafova - I came, lay down on the couch and thought: “That's it, I will never go there again. I can not".

But now such thoughts do not occur to me, although from time to time I hear from some of my employees: “I can no longer. Everything is bad, everything is wrong. And we do everything wrong, and they do everything wrong. And the refugees are not what they should be. " One employee left us and now she writes on Facebook: "I am so disappointed in migrants." So why are you fascinated by them? After all, they are not recruited by competition.

A. Ezhov- About such a broader influence of human rights defenders on society. Dmitry Mezentsev, our regular listener, asks: “Why, in your opinion, our society adores Comrade Stalin and assumes that the role of human rights defenders in the de-Stalinization process is too small and insufficient. Do you share this point of view? Is one related to the other?

S. Gannushkina- Firstly, my society does not adore Joseph Vissarionovich Stalin. Around me, just, in my opinion, there are no such people, just not. And it would be strange if they were. Well, you see, if my mother's aunt, when her husband was already imprisoned and taken away, shouted to her relatives - and these were acquaintances, friends of youth - tell Joseph! Joseph does not know what they are doing to us here! "

A. Ezhov- There was a big mistake. Tell Comrade Stalin.

S. Gannushkina- They were sure, yes. “Tell Joseph,” not Comrade Stalin, but Joseph, because he was a friend of youth. It is being reborn. And he really didn’t know, and exaggerated volumes, so to speak, as if it was so important right down to one ... although, of course, it is important for everyone that the name of his deceased loved one was named, but manipulation of some numbers begins. Well, people want a strong hand.

S. Kryuchkov- Do you believe in Russian civil society that it will be built sometime?

S. Gannushkina“I believe it was built because I’m part of it.”

S. Kryuchkov- Built?

S. Gannushkina- Yes, of course, absolutely. Who am I? I do not exist on my own as a unit. I am part of this society. I am surrounded by my colleagues, friends, like-minded people. Moreover, I can tell you, I do not just believe, but I see how a single civil society is being created, as it were, a global one, because now I have colleagues, friends, people close to me in various countries - in the USA, in France, in the Czech Republic. , in Ukraine, of course, in Belarus. These are people close to me.

It seems to me that the authorities, in general, should learn to follow our example, learn from us, because we understand each other. We learned to understand each other, live a common life and develop some mechanisms and some to make decisions and assessments.

Svetlana Gannushkina photography

Has been involved in human rights activities since the late 1980s, defending the rights of refugees and internally displaced persons. In recent years, its focus has been on human rights violations in Chechnya, as well as assistance to refugees in Russia.

In 1990, she became one of the founders of the Civic Assistance Committee, the first human rights organization providing comprehensive assistance to refugees and internally displaced persons. In 1993 she participated in the creation of the Memorial Human Rights Center. In 1996, within the framework of Memorial Human Rights Center, she organized the Migration and Law Network. The Civic Assistance Committee and the Migration Law Network work in close cooperation with UNHCR and enjoy its active support.

At present, "Civic Assistance" provides intermediary assistance to refugees, internally displaced persons and internally displaced persons in their relations with the authorities and other official structures; accepts material assistance and things (clothes, shoes, dishes, etc.) from public organizations, industrial enterprises and private donors and distributes it among his wards; provides legal assistance and support in obtaining medical assistance; assists in the provision of free consulting assistance.

Since 2004, in partnership with the French organization Secours Catolique (Caritas France), the Civic Assistance Committee has been working on a project to promote medical assistance to residents of Chechnya and internally displaced persons in Ingushetia. The project is funded by the EU Humanitarian Aid Commission.

The Committee has organized a Center for Adaptation and Education of Children, where students and graduates of Moscow universities prepare refugee children for a return to normal school life.

Svetlana Gannushkina is the head of the Memorial Human Rights Center's program “Protecting the Rights of Forced Migrants,” within which the Migration and Law Network, created to provide free legal advice to migrants in many regions of Russia, operates. Network lawyers conduct consultative reception of migrants, protect their interests in courts, and also work to bring regional acts in line with federal legislation and the Constitution of the Russian Federation.

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Svetlana Gannushkina was a member of the Government Commission on Migration Policy (liquidated in the spring of 2004). In October 2002, she became a member of the Commission on Human Rights under the President of Russia (and later, on its basis, the Council under the President of the Russian Federation for Assisting the Development of Civil Society Institutions and Human Rights). In 2003 she was awarded the prize of the German section of Amnesty International for outstanding service in the field of human rights.

Memorial Human Rights Center was awarded the Fridtjof Nansen Prize by the UNHCR in 2004 for its work in the field of refugee protection.

November 27, 2005 in Moscow - an anti-fascist picket, held in response to the "Russian March" of nationalist organizations, which took place in Moscow on November 4, 2005.

On January 28, 2006, on the website of the Migration and Law Network, an open letter from Gannushkina was published, addressed to the FSB, ironically labeled as “a confession” and bearing the title “With deepest contempt for all stones”.

In July 2006, the International Forum of Non-Governmental Organizations "Civil G8 2006" was held in Moscow. Its goals were to discuss issues of concern to the international community in connection with the G8 summit in St. Petersburg. Round tables were held within the framework of the forum. Svetlana Gannushkina and Alexander Verkhovsky (director of the SOVA Information and Analytical Center) led the table on migration and xenophobia.

In February 2007 Svetlana Gannushkina received a warning from the prosecutor's office. It pointed out

inadmissibility of violation of Russian laws concerning forced migrants, refugees, the legal status of foreign citizens and the right of citizens to freedom of movement

The reason for the proceedings was an appeal to the Prosecutor General's Office of the Russian Federation by State Duma Deputy Nikolai Kuryanovich with a demand to check the activities of the organization "in connection with the implementation of operational cover for ethnic criminal groups by it." The deputy's inquiry appeared after publication in one of the central newspapers in October 2006. The material reported that one of the criminals killed during detention by law enforcement agencies (Tariel Tsuly) had a petition “with a request not to take administrative measures and not to obstruct him while moving around the Moscow region,” signed by Svetlana Gannushkina. After a year of inspections by RUBOP, RUBEP and Rosregistratsiya in Moscow, which ended successfully for the Civic Assistance Committee, October 25, 2007. By the decision of the Zamoskvaretsky court of Moscow, the warning of the Moscow prosecutor's office was declared illegal.

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Svetlana Alekseevna Gannushkina

Portrait
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Svetlana Alekseevna Gannushkina(born March 6, 1942) - Russian human rights activist, teacher and public figure. Chairman of the Civic Assistance Committee, member of the Council and head of the Migration and Law Network of the Memorial Human Rights Center, as well as (until June 2012) a member. In 2016 - a candidate for the State Duma from the Yabloko party.

Biography

Human rights activities

The Committee has organized a Center for Adaptation and Education of Children, where students and graduates of Moscow universities prepare refugee children for a return to normal school life.

Svetlana Gannushkina cooperates with State Duma deputies, actively using the mechanism of parliamentary inquiries and petitions to solve general and specific problems of refugees. As a member of the Expert Council under the Ombudsman for Human Rights in Russia, she participates in the development of legislation relating to the rights of refugees and internally displaced persons, and regularly publishes reports on the situation of migrants.

Svetlana Gannushkina is a member of the Government Commission on Migration.

In 2010, Svetlana Gannushkina, the leader of the Norwegian Conservative Party, Erna Solberg, was nominated (together with Memorial) for the Nobel Peace Prize.

Since September 2012 - Member of the Government Commission on Migration Policy.

Participation in public promotions

In July 2006, the Civil G8 2006 International Forum of Non-Governmental Organizations was held in Moscow. Its goals were to discuss issues of concern to the international community in connection with the G8 summit in St. Petersburg. Round tables were held within the framework of the forum. Svetlana Gannushkina and Alexander Verkhovsky (director of the SOVA Information and Analytical Center) led the table on migration and xenophobia.

In March 2010, Svetlana Gannushkina signed an appeal by the Russian opposition "Putin must leave."

Participation in elections

In elections in The State Duma 2016 topped the regional list of the Yabloko party in Chechnya. Gannushkina said: “Now I do not see a single party, apart from Yabloko, who can counterbalance the current government. The main branches of government have been lost, which is unacceptable. Therefore, there should be independent deputies, and I see them only in Yabloko ”.

Pressure from the Prosecutor's Office of the Russian Federation

After a year of inspections by RUBOP, RUBEP and Rosregistratsiya in Moscow, which ended successfully for the Civic Assistance Committee, on October 25, 2007, by a decision of the Zamoskvoretsky Court of Moscow, the warning of the Moscow Prosecutor's Office was declared illegal - it was proved that the above petition of Gannushkina was not issued and Russian legislation did not break.

Awards

Family

Father - Alexey Petrovich Gannushkin (1920-1974), aircraft design engineer of the design bureau named after V.I. A. N. Tupolev, USSR State Prize Laureate. Mother - Elena G. Prokhorova (1916-2000).

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Notes (edit)

... // NEWSru.com, February 26, 2007 (Retrieved January 7, 2011)
... // Website of the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (English)
... // Memo.ru, May 25, 2010 (Retrieved January 7, 2011)
... // Portal "Human Rights in Russia", February 3, 2010 (Retrieved January 7, 2011)
Gannushkina S.A.... // Website of the Network "Migration and Law", January 28, 2006 (Retrieved January 7, 2011)
... // Caucasian Knot, July 8, 2016
... // Portal "Human Rights in Russia", October 30, 2007 (Retrieved January 7, 2011)
http://rightlivelihoodaward2016.org/svetlana-gannushkina/

Links

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An excerpt characterizing Gannushkin, Svetlana Alekseevna

- I know who you are ... I remember you! You are the famous Venetian Witch, with whom his Holiness never wants to part - Giovanni said quietly - Legends are told about you, Madonna! Many people around the Pope wish you were dead, but he does not listen to anyone. Why does he need you so much, Isidora?
It was clear that the conversation was very difficult for him. With every breath, the cardinal wheezed and coughed, unable to breathe normally.
- It's very hard for you. Please let me help you! - I stubbornly did not give up, knowing that after that no one else would help him.
- It doesn't matter ... I think you'd better get out of here as soon as possible, Madonna, before my new jailers come, or even better - the Pope himself. I don't think he would really like to find you here ... - the cardinal whispered softly, and added, - And you are, indeed, extraordinarily beautiful, Madonna ... Too ... even for the Pope.
Not listening to him anymore, I put my hand on his chest, and, feeling the life-giving warmth pouring into the broken bone, I detached myself from the environment, completely concentrating only on the person sitting in front of me. After a few minutes, he carefully, but deeply sighed, and not feeling pain, smiled in surprise.
“If you didn’t call yourself a Witch, you would immediately be christened a saint, Isidora! This is magnificent! True, it's a pity that you worked in vain ... They will soon come for me, and I think that afterwards I will need more serious treatment ... You are familiar with his methods, aren't you?
- Will you really be tortured like everyone else, Monsignor? .. You do serve his beloved church! .. And your family - I'm sure it is very influential! Can she help you?
- Oh, I think they are not going to kill me so easily ... - the cardinal smiled bitterly. - But after all, even before death, in the cellars of Karaffa, they are forced to pray for her ... Isn't that so? Go away, madonna! I will try to survive. And I will remember you with gratitude ...
I looked sadly around the stone "cell", suddenly with a shudder I remembered the dead Girolamo hanging on the wall ... How long will all this horror continue ?! another, destroyed by him with impunity? ..
Footsteps were heard in the corridor. A moment later the door opened with a creak - Karaffa stood on the threshold ...
His eyes flashed with lightning. Apparently, one of the diligent servants immediately reported that I went to the cellars and now the "Holiness" was clearly going, in my place, to take out his anger on the unfortunate cardinal, who was helplessly sitting next to me ...
- Congratulations, Madonna! This place is clearly to your liking, even if you come back here alone! - Well, let me please you - now we will show you a cute performance! - and smiling rather, sat down in his usual large chair, intending to enjoy the upcoming "spectacle" ...
I was dizzy with hatred ... Why?! .. Well, why did this monster think that he owned any human life, with every right to take it away when he pleases? ..
“Your Holiness, do you come across heretics among the faithful servants of your beloved church? ..” I asked, slightly restraining my indignation.
- Oh, in this case it is just a serious disobedience, Isidora. It doesn't smell like heresy here. I just don't like it when my orders are not followed. And every disobedience needs a little lesson for the future, doesn't it, my dear Morone? .. I think you agree with me on this?
Morone !!! Yes, of course! That's why this person seemed familiar to me! I saw him only once at the personal reception of the Pope. But the cardinal then delighted me with his truly natural greatness and the freedom of his sharp mind. And I remember that Karaffa then seemed very benevolent to him and pleased with him. Why did the cardinal now manage to do so much wrong that the vindictive Pope dared to put him in this terrible stone bag? ..
“Well, my friend, are you willing to admit your mistake and return back to the Emperor to correct it, or will you rot here until you wait for my death ... which, as far as I know, will not happen very soon ..” ...
I froze ... What did that mean ?! What changed?! Caraffa was going to live long ??? And he declared this very confidently! What could have happened to him during his absence? ..
- Don't try, Caraffa ... It's not interesting anymore. You have no right to torture me and keep me in this basement. And you know that very well, ”Morone replied very calmly.
He still had his unchanging dignity, which once so sincerely delighted me. And right there in my memory our first and only meeting came up very vividly ...
This happened late in the evening at one of Karaffa's strange "night" receptions. There were almost no people waiting, when suddenly, thin as a pole, the servant announced that His Eminence Cardinal Morone had come to the reception, who, moreover, was "in a great hurry." Caraffa was clearly delighted. Meanwhile, a man entered the hall with a majestic gait ... If anyone deserved the title of the highest hierarch of the church, it was he! Tall, slender and fit, magnificent in his bright moire dress, he walked with a light, springy gait on the richest carpets, as if autumn leaves, proudly carrying his beautiful head, as if the world belonged only to him. Thoroughbred from the roots of the hair to the very tips of his aristocratic fingers, he evoked involuntary respect for himself, even without knowing him.
- Are you ready, Morone? - Caraffa exclaimed cheerfully. - I hope that you will please Us with your efforts! Well, happy road to you, cardinal, greet the Emperor from Us! - and got up, clearly intending to leave.
I could not stand Caraffa's manner of saying "we" about myself, but it was the privilege of the popes and kings, and, of course, no one ever tried to challenge it. I was strongly opposed by such an exaggerated emphasis on its importance and exclusivity. But those who had such a privilege, of course, were completely satisfied with it, without causing any negative feelings in them. Ignoring Caraffa's words, the cardinal easily knelt down, kissing the “ring of sinners,” and, already getting up, looked very intently at me with his bright cornflower-blue eyes. They reflected an unexpected delight and obvious attention ... which, of course, Caraffe did not like at all.
- You came here to see me, and not to break the hearts of beautiful ladies! - Dad croaked in displeasure. - Bon voyage, Morone!
“I must speak with you before I begin to act, Your Holiness,” said Morone with all the courtesy possible, without being in the least embarrassed. “A mistake on my part can cost us dear. Therefore, I ask you to give me a little of your precious time before I leave you.
I was surprised by the shade of prickly irony that sounded in the words of "your precious time" ... He was almost elusive, but still - he was clearly! And I immediately decided to take a closer look at the unusual cardinal, amazed at his courage. After all, usually not a single person dared to joke, and even more so - to be ironic with Karaffa. What in this case showed that Morone was not in the least afraid of him ... But what was the reason for such confident behavior - I immediately decided to find out, since I did not miss the slightest opportunity to find out someone who could ever provide I had at least some help in destroying the "Holiness" ... But in this case, unfortunately, I was not lucky ... Taking the cardinal's arm and ordering me to wait in the hall, Caraffa took Morone to his chambers, not even allowing me say goodbye to him. And for some reason, I still have a feeling of strange regret, as if I missed some important, albeit very small, chance to get someone else's support ...
Usually Dad would not let me be in his waiting room when there were people there. But sometimes, for one reason or another, he suddenly "commanded" to follow him, and it was simply unreasonable on my part to refuse him, bringing on even more troubles, and there was no serious reason for that. Therefore, I always walked, knowing that, as usual, the Pope would observe my reaction to certain guests with some incomprehensible interest. I was completely indifferent to why he needed such "entertainment". But such "meetings" allowed me to relax a little, and for the sake of this it was worth not to object to his strange invitations.
Having never met again with Cardinal Morone, who interested me, I very soon forgot about him. And now he was sitting on the floor right in front of me, all bloody, but still just as proud, and again made me admire his ability to preserve his dignity in the same way, remaining himself in any, even the most unpleasant life circumstances.
- You are right, Morone, I have no serious reason to torment you ... - and immediately smiled. - But do We really need him? .. And besides, not all torment leaves visible traces, does it?
I didn’t want to stay! .. I didn’t want to watch this monstrous "Holiness" practice his "talents" on a completely innocent person. But I also knew very well that Caraffa would not let me go until he enjoyed my torment at the same time. Therefore, pulling myself together as far as my shattered nerves would allow me, I prepared to watch ...
The powerful executioner easily lifted the cardinal, tying a heavy stone to his feet. At first I could not understand what such torture meant, but, unfortunately, it was not long in coming ... The executioner pulled the lever, and the cardinal's body began to rise ... A crunch was heard - it was his joints and vertebrae coming out of their places. My hair is standing on end! But the cardinal was silent.
- Shout, Morone! Give me pleasure! Perhaps then I will let you go earlier. Well, what are you? .. I order you. Shout !!!
Dad was furious ... He hated when people did not break. He hated if they were not afraid of him ... And therefore for the "disobedient" the torture continued much more stubbornly and angrily.
Morone turned white as death. Large drops of sweat rolled down his thin face and, breaking loose, dripped onto the ground. His endurance was amazing, but I understood that I could not go on like this for a long time - every living body had a limit ... I wanted to help him, try to somehow anesthetize him. And then I suddenly came up with a funny idea, which I immediately tried to implement - the stone hanging on the cardinal's feet became weightless! .. Fortunately, Karaffa did not notice this. And Morone looked up in surprise, and then hastily closed them so as not to betray. But I managed to see - he understood. And she continued to "conjure" further to ease his pain as much as possible.
- Go away, madonna! - the Pope exclaimed with displeasure. “You are preventing me from enjoying the spectacle. I have long wanted to see if our dear friend will be so proud after the "work" of my executioner? You are disturbing me, Isidora!
This meant - he, nevertheless, understood ...
Caraffa was not a seer, but he somehow caught a lot with his incredibly keen instinct. So now, sensing that something was happening, and not wanting to lose control over the situation, he ordered me to leave.
But now I myself did not want to leave. The unfortunate cardinal needed my help, and I truly wanted to help him. For I knew that I would leave him alone with Caraffa - no one knew if Morone would see the coming day. But Karaffa obviously did not care about my desires ... Without giving me even indignation, the second executioner literally carried me out the door and pushed me towards the corridor, returned to the room, where alone with Karaffa was left, albeit a very brave, but completely helpless, good person. ..
I stood in the corridor wondering how I could help him. But, unfortunately, there was no way out of his sad situation. In any case, I could not find him so quickly ... Although, to be honest, my situation was probably even more sad ... Yes, while Karaffa had not tortured me yet. But after all, the physical pain was not so terrible as the torment and death of loved ones were terrible ... I did not know what was happening to Anna, and, afraid to somehow interfere, I waited helplessly ... From my sad experience, I am too good I understood that I had angered Dad with some rash action, and the result would only get worse - Anna would probably have to suffer.